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New Horizons(ver 14.0920) Translation Project

   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Ноя 06, 2014 23:40     Заголовок сообщения:

I have enough for today, got square eyes Smile I'll spend some more time tomorrow with Boon's units sheet. Drakon had already translated some of the units, and I've started to use them, but we'll see how things go. I can always do some sort of find and replace.

Here's another screen shot of my translation interface, this time with an overview of the files in the Text folder.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwMWyw77HfkXNDVCbUZUUk15VjA/view?usp=sharing

As you can see, I started with the small files and am working my way to the huge ones. I worked on upgrade.txt all day today and still managed to complete only 80%. It's more work than I thought. There are quite a few new sentences and terms, some have been edited and improved since 13.0421, so there's a lot to review, enhance and translate. Still, all that I am doing now needs only be done once. Any new sentence that's added, will be skipped next time, even a minute later. That's why the remaining files are still only 30% to 40% pre-translated. There are certain expressions and terms that once encountered will be skipped afterwards. That's why it's not easy to estimate how long a file, or the whole project for that matter, will take. Well, it takes as long as it takes. At least it seems to work as predicted. I replaced some of the files in Boon's version with my newly translated ones, and all seemed to work fine. So there will be a high-quality English version of Eador Genesis New Horizons version 14.0920.... eventually Smile

Thank you, Boon947 and Kettarienne for such good cooperation. It flows really well...
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 1:23     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
I have enough for today, got square eyes Smile I'll spend some more time tomorrow with Boon's units sheet. Drakon had already translated some of the units, and I've started to use them, but we'll see how things go. I can always do some sort of find and replace.

I started from a unit that didn't exist in Drakon's version AFAICT.

Satshanti писал(а):
Here's another screen shot of my translation interface, this time with an overview of the files in the Text folder.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwMWyw77HfkXNDVCbUZUUk15VjA/view?usp=sharing

As you can see, I started with the small files and am working my way to the huge ones. I worked on upgrade.txt all day today and still managed to complete only 80%. It's more work than I thought. There are quite a few new sentences and terms, some have been edited and improved since 13.0421, so there's a lot to review, enhance and translate. Still, all that I am doing now needs only be done once. Any new sentence that's added, will be skipped next time, even a minute later. That's why the remaining files are still only 30% to 40% pre-translated. There are certain expressions and terms that once encountered will be skipped afterwards. That's why it's not easy to estimate how long a file, or the whole project for that matter, will take. Well, it takes as long as it takes. At least it seems to work as predicted. I replaced some of the files in Boon's version with my newly translated ones, and all seemed to work fine. So there will be a high-quality English version of Eador Genesis New Horizons version 14.0920.... eventually Smile

Thank you, Boon947 and Kettarienne for such good cooperation. It flows really well...

Work is progressing nicely! You'll see, getting to dialog.var and campaign_dialog.var is kind of depressing. Huge files with lots of new text and also lots of minor fixes. One could spend weeks in these two files (which is why I did such a lousy job of them).

I finished units.var what would you have me do next?

Regards.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 12:49     Заголовок сообщения:

Boon947 писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):
I have enough for today, got square eyes Smile I'll spend some more time tomorrow with Boon's units sheet. Drakon had already translated some of the units, and I've started to use them, but we'll see how things go. I can always do some sort of find and replace.

I started from a unit that didn't exist in Drakon's version AFAICT.

Drakon also made a list available, on which he had already translated many of the new units and terms, not up to 14.0920, but up to 2 or 3 versions after 13.0421
Boon947 писал(а):
Work is progressing nicely! You'll see, getting to dialog.var and campaign_dialog.var is kind of depressing. Huge files with lots of new text and also lots of minor fixes. One could spend weeks in these two files (which is why I did such a lousy job of them).I finished units.var what would you have me do next?

Yes, I went through them during the alignment process. Well, as I said, it takes as long as it takes. It's one and a half year worth of creativity and development to translate and catch up with, so that's just the way it is then. I still think it's worth doing, and I'll doggedly continue. If I get paid work though, I'll have to take a break. Smile

To answer your last question, I don't like putting a damper on your enthusiasm and willingness to assist, but I'm afraid I must at this point. If we would both work the way you did it before, one file at a time manually, it would definitely make sense to divide the work, the more the merrier, but the whole point of me stepping in the way I did was to create a database for future releases, and that's centrally maintained. Most of what I do now, and have done these last few days, is thinking ahead, expanding the termbase and TM, making sure that next time there is only one possible translation for each sentence, and not more, like it was with version 13.0421, updating all old sentences for the ones that have been improved by the team (i.e. from e to ë and changing -). And yes, there's also translation involved, but for that I've got the assistance of the TM and termbase that get continually updated, and insure consistency throughout all of the files. That's why it's not really practical unfortunately to do the actual work with more people, other than the invaluable assistance of Kettarienne to shed light on the mysteries of the Russian language. Smile

So I really appreciate your offer, but I can't see a way for you to help me that would actually save me time, rather than make it more complex due to having to make changes afterwards to what I've gone through already. I hope you understand.
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   Drakon

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 15:51     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):

To answer your last question, I don't like putting a damper on your enthusiasm and willingness to assist, but I'm afraid I must at this point. If we would both work the way you did it before, one file at a time manually, it would definitely make sense to divide the work, the more the merrier, but the whole point of me stepping in the way I did was to create a database for future releases, and that's centrally maintained. Most of what I do now, and have done these last few days, is thinking ahead, expanding the termbase and TM, making sure that next time there is only one possible translation for each sentence, and not more, like it was with version 13.0421, updating all old sentences for the ones that have been improved by the team (i.e. from e to ë and changing -). And yes, there's also translation involved, but for that I've got the assistance of the TM and termbase that get continually updated, and insure consistency throughout all of the files. That's why it's not really practical unfortunately to do the actual work with more people, other than the invaluable assistance of Kettarienne to shed light on the mysteries of the Russian language. Smile
\

In my experience, the less people involved the better, however it is extremely time consuming to do everything by yourself. So I think it is okay to divide the work into categories but only one person should translate the whole category.

For example.

I was translating all the names, and all the spell descriptions

Tehric was translating all the dialogues and all the unit descriptions. Since his English was perfect and he could do poetic translation.

imrahil66 was translating misc stuff like buildings descriptions, ability descriptions.

There are some categories of translation that can be done by pretty much any good translator.


I also was consulting people in Skype(chat) about confusing places in translation.

**********

In my opinion translating the names of everything should be made by people who actually understand both languages. Since direct translation can not relfect the exact meaning put into the unit while creating it. Also a good name is a great foundation for descriptions.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 16:03     Заголовок сообщения:

Drakon писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):

To answer your last question, I don't like putting a damper on your enthusiasm and willingness to assist, but I'm afraid I must at this point. If we would both work the way you did it before, one file at a time manually, it would definitely make sense to divide the work, the more the merrier, but the whole point of me stepping in the way I did was to create a database for future releases, and that's centrally maintained. Most of what I do now, and have done these last few days, is thinking ahead, expanding the termbase and TM, making sure that next time there is only one possible translation for each sentence, and not more, like it was with version 13.0421, updating all old sentences for the ones that have been improved by the team (i.e. from e to ë and changing -). And yes, there's also translation involved, but for that I've got the assistance of the TM and termbase that get continually updated, and insure consistency throughout all of the files. That's why it's not really practical unfortunately to do the actual work with more people, other than the invaluable assistance of Kettarienne to shed light on the mysteries of the Russian language. Smile
\

In my experience, the less people involved the better, however it is extremely time consuming to do everything by yourself. So I think it is okay to divide the work into categories but only one person should translate the whole category.

First of all, thank and your whole team for all you've done so far. The translations I encounter are excellent. Also my thanks for the list of terms you shared of the newer units. Kettarienne and I changed some, but kept most of the names you suggested. Now, to comment on the above, you're right if the same system would be in place, but the one I'm using doesn't allow much cooperation and division of labour, as I explained. Most of the work now is creating, updating and organising the database of translated sentences and terms, which can be used for any future release. This is something only I can do, and while I do that, translation needs to be done as well, not separately, but intertwined, so cooperation with others by each working on different files is not possible at this point.
Drakon писал(а):
I also was consulting people in Skype(chat) about confusing places in translation. In my opinion translating the names of everything should be made by people who actually understand both languages. Since direct translation can not relfect the exact meaning put into the unit while creating it. Also a good name is a great foundation for descriptions.

Absolutely, and that's why the contributions of Kettarienne so far have been invaluable. I'll send you the link to the spreadsheet as well, so you can see what's happening.
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   Drakon

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 16:14     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):

Absolutely, and that's why the contributions of Kettarienne so far have been invaluable. I'll send you the link to the spreadsheet as well, so you can see what's happening.


Yes, it is very good that he decided to join Smile

Btw, I don't remember if I reflected this in the names.xls file. But I never liked some of the names of the 4th tier unit upgrades. Especially things like Holy warrior, I mean a Paladin turns into a... Holy Warrior, that sounded kind of lame to me. So I took the liberty of naming him The Avatar of the Eagle God(I think) Maybe you'll think of a more epic name. Just an idea Smile
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Последний раз редактировалось: Drakon (Пт Ноя 07, 2014 16:44), всего редактировалось 1 раз
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   Kettarienne

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 16:19     Заголовок сообщения:

Drakon писал(а):
So I took the liberty of naming him The Avatar of the Eagle God(I think) Maybe you'll think for a more epic name.
The Saint Militant? Or simply Saint? Aquilite? The Paragon?
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 16:22     Заголовок сообщения:

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So I took the liberty of naming him The Avatar of the Eagle God(I think) Maybe you'll think for a more epic name.
The Saint Militant? Or simply Saint? Aquilite? The Paragon?
I vote for Paragon...
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I vote for Paragon...


Paragon of Lite?
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Renamed the thread and made it important(pinned)
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 21:36     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
I can't see a way for you to help me that would actually save me time, rather than make it more complex due to having to make changes afterwards to what I've gone through already. I hope you understand.

OK, I'll let you do your thing, you seem to be progressing at a speedy pace.

BTW Kettarienne, I posted a few replies to your comments on the spreadsheet, but it's mostly idle chat.

Regards.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Ноя 07, 2014 23:20     Заголовок сообщения:

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I vote for Paragon...

Paragon of Lite?

Yes, a Paragon of Light. Smile
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вс Ноя 09, 2014 21:59     Заголовок сообщения:

Here's a brief update. I've been spending these last days going through some of the huge files in the Text folder. It took me about 1 and a half days each to get through the upgrade and ability files. Having done that, the spells files today was less work, relatively speaking. It did take me a full day to process it, but there were already so many terms and sentences stored in the previous days, that it took me ONLY one day to go through 3634 lines of text with 17579 words. I did skip the non-essential quotes and background snippets, although I had to spend some time making sure that next time, they are also skipped automatically.

Now there's just the largest text file to process, the units, all whopping 26813 words of it, before I move on to the var folder. I have already done some of those too, the smaller ones, just to test if the game still works after my treatment, changing the file extensions to txt, processing them, and then changing them back to var files. As Boon already mentioned there are two dialog and one unit file to look forward to in the var folder, with respectively 71,000, 105,000 and 106,000 words, 3 or 4 times as much as the largest (unit) file in the Text folder. Still, many of the sentences and terms will already have been stored while working on the text folder, so hopefully it won't take too long.

Anyway, we'll see how much time it will all take me. Probably one or two more weeks should do it.
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вс Ноя 09, 2014 22:33     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
Here's a brief update. I've been spending these last days going through some of the huge files in the Text folder. It took me about 1 and a half days each to get through the upgrade and ability files. Having done that, the spells files today was less work, relatively speaking. It did take me a full day to process it, but there were already so many terms and sentences stored in the previous days, that it took me ONLY one day to go through 3634 lines of text with 17579 words. I did skip the non-essential quotes and background snippets, although I had to spend some time making sure that next time, they are also skipped automatically.

Now there's just the largest text file to process, the units, all whopping 26813 words of it, before I move on to the var folder. I have already done some of those too, the smaller ones, just to test if the game still works after my treatment, changing the file extensions to txt, processing them, and then changing them back to var files. As Boon already mentioned there are two dialog and one unit file to look forward to in the var folder, with respectively 71,000, 105,000 and 106,000 words, 3 or 4 times as much as the largest (unit) file in the Text folder. Still, many of the sentences and terms will already have been stored while working on the text folder, so hopefully it won't take too long.

Anyway, we'll see how much time it will all take me. Probably one or two more weeks should do it.

First of all, thanks for these regular updates, keep 'em coming Wink

As for unit.var, you're mistaken (in a good way). Only the unit names need to be translated, and you already have those in the Google spreadsheet. So this one will be very quick actually.

Regards.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вс Ноя 09, 2014 22:40     Заголовок сообщения:

And after I had been working with all those words all day, I've been playing around with Grabber and Photoshop the past week, and have made a new main menu without the Cyrillic letters. The original fonts are rather special and I've not been able to find similarly beautiful ones, but I've used the Fiorne font that has more or less the same style. I still have to add animation to it, but I thought I'd post it here and sollicit some feedback.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwMWyw77HfkXdFRIaF96cTN0MVE/view?usp=sharing
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вт Ноя 11, 2014 18:14     Заголовок сообщения:

I've started working on Unit.txt, the last and largest of the text files. (As Boon reminded me, with the exception of the dialog files, the other var files shouldn't be as much work, as they consist of a lot of variables.) This file is slow-going though, because it has quite a few alignment issues, meaning the number of sentences of the descriptions in Russian and English do not match. So even with the older units, it still takes me some time to line up the translations properly and make sure they are skipped automatically next time. That was yesterday and this morning. Now I still have about a hundred unit desctiptions to go through, but most of these are completely new units, so they will need to be translated from scratch. As this often does not involve direct interaction with the TM or termbase, it would be helpful if others could join in with this.

To that effect, I have added another tab to the spreadsheet, called Satshanti Unit.txt Descriptions, on which I will list only the units that completely lack a description. I have created columns with 1. Russian original, 2. English version Google translated, to leave as is, 3. duplicate of that to be edited and improved and 4. a column for a completely new and creative translation.

It would be helpful, Kettarienne and Boon, if you could help with this, as you have been doing this past week, and if others would like to join in, please send me a PM and I'll send you the link to the working sheet.
I think this might be the only part of the project for which contributions of native Russian speakers with some knowledge of English are needed and actually quite important. Or possibly even better in this case, native English speakers with some knowledge of Russian and/or the willingness to do some creative writing, based on the very limited Google translations. It's mainly about the flow of the sentences. If you don't know how a certain game term should be translated, just use anything, or use ????. I will still have to insert the translations manually into the software and the TM, so I will do a final check.

I'll continue to go through Unit.txt and will place all units without existing English description, i.e. the new units since version 13.0421, in the spreadsheet. I'll skip these for now, and will continue to process the already fully or partially translated units. I can then also start working on the var folder. If no others with enough time and skill can be found to assist with this, I'll edit the Google translations myself after I've done everything else. But to save me quite a bit of time, possibly a whole day or 2, it would be really good to get some help with this part. And of course we would then get much better quality English descriptions for these great new units, that have been envisioned and created by the modding community with such care and attention to detail. I'd like to honour all that work by making sure we use the best possible translations. Smile

Thanks a lot!
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вт Ноя 11, 2014 22:50     Заголовок сообщения:

A brief update to the above: I know it looks like a lot, and it is kind of a lot Smile but I think it would be nice to at least get these descriptions into some semblance of proper English. As I said, I'll do them myself at the end if push comes to shove, but any help is very welcome. I've run through the whole unit.txt now and the rest were amendments only, so this is it as far as the totally new descriptions go: 46 units, with 360 descriptive sentences to edit, about 6500 words in total. I think it should be possible to do some basic editing on all of them in about 12 to 16 hours. A real work of prose and some heavy creative writing, as was obiously done by the people in Drakon's team, would of course take longer.

@Boon, lacking any other volunteers at this time, your help would be really appreciated. For a basic job, these descriptions don't need to be a 100% accurate. You could even just work on the sentences you feel are worth using and just leave out the non-essential ones. I've marked the whole column with the editable Google translation in red, to signify that these still need to be processed. Kett has started with the first unit, so I've marked that in yellow. Once I've done the final review at some point, like spell and term checking, I'll mark them in green. You could therefore also just use the sentences you think make sense to include, and when completed, mark them in yellow, and leave the ones you think are unnecessary in red.

I hope I'm making enough sense! Wink
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вт Ноя 11, 2014 23:01     Заголовок сообщения:

Hello,

I have a general, nit-picking, question for translations of unit background info.

Ratmen and Dark Elves have endonyms (I learned that term here!). IMHO, I should use the exonym in the descriptions, as these are often written from the Humans' point of view. Do you think that is correct?

Regards.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вт Ноя 11, 2014 23:08     Заголовок сообщения:

Boon947 писал(а):
Hello,
I have a general, nit-picking, question for translations of unit background info.
Ratmen and Dark Elves have endonyms (I learned that term here!). IMHO, I should use the exonym in the descriptions, as these are often written from the Humans' point of view. Do you think that is correct?

Yes, good thinking. I know Dark Elves call themselves Alvari, but what do Ratmen call themselves then? I don't think I have encountered any other term for them...
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вт Ноя 11, 2014 23:25     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
Boon947 писал(а):
Hello,
I have a general, nit-picking, question for translations of unit background info.
Ratmen and Dark Elves have endonyms (I learned that term here!). IMHO, I should use the exonym in the descriptions, as these are often written from the Humans' point of view. Do you think that is correct?

Yes, good thinking. I know Dark Elves call themselves Alvari, but what do Ratmen call themselves then? I don't think I have encountered any other term for them...

I think you have Wink
It is one of the words Google messes up.

Крысолюд(-ы) — Ratman(-men)
endonym thereof: Скрытт(-ы) — Screett(-s)

(Side-note, Elves and Alvar have the same etymology AFAIU.)
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