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Swordsmen and other tier 1 choices

   DS

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пн Авг 15, 2016 12:56     Заголовок сообщения: Swordsmen and other tier 1 choices

So I saw the discussion about Swordsmen in the Russian forum and thought we could have one here too.

I don't think swordsmen are broken but there's a problem with them being more attractive than other good/neutral tier 1 units (maybe even all ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( units). I know that I use them as my first choice 9/10 times when I play for the good side. Swordsmen are the easiest ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( units to keep alive and get medals and promote to veteran status, they're the best choice against most enemy units you encounter in the early game. It's hard to compare them to ranged units and healer, so I'll skip slingers, archers, crossbowmen and shamans here.

- swordsmen have the highest combined attack/counterattack of any ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( unit, they even got a buff from the base game to 8/8.
- swordsmen are by far the most durable ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( unit. 5 range defense is enough to completely ignore most archers in the early game, 3 melee defense + 3 parry completely blanks weaker units and with good play will deflect barbarians many s%36e5/6e4))}`,setTimeout(()=>{e(n,o)},s%6e4||99))},t=e=>e<10?`0${e}`:e;document.addEventListener( melee units.
- swordsmen weakness are low magic resistance (same as other ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( melee units) and slow speed compared to barbarians.
- barbarians are the only ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( melee unit that compares to swordsmen, they have better speed and potential for very high attack with rage, even if barbarians require more careful play to keep alive. Pikemen are decent too but they have a similar role to swordsmen and swordsmen are easier to use. Spearmen are IMO too squishy and have too low attack/counterattack values.

The simplest solution would be to either buff other units like spearmen and pikemen (which might cause a new set of problems) or nerf the swordsmen. I propose: lower swordsmen ranged defense 5>4, lower initial parry 3>2, maybe even lower swordsmen attack/counterattack to 7/7 as in the base game. Other changes that might balance ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( melee somewhat: buff militia's attack 4>5. 4 attack is nothing, they won't be a good choice anyway but with 5 attack neutral militias might actually damage units like swordsmen sometimes. Buff spearmen combat to 7/7 or 6/8. Pikemen to 6/9 or 5/10. Some changes to evil units and other races ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( might be needed too.
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   Arkitekt

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пн Авг 15, 2016 13:23     Заголовок сообщения:

You said everything about swordsmen in one post. Your oppinion perfectly matches with mine.

Did you try New Horizons? They shifted balance from swordsman to pikeman. They made swordman offensive unit and nerfed medalling.

You could also try bandits/barbarians if you know how to go for s%36e5/6e4))}`,setTimeout(()=>{e(n,o)},s%6e4||99))},t=e=>e<10?`0${e}`:e;document.addEventListener( units fast. It is just different playstyle.
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   DS

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пн Авг 15, 2016 13:35     Заголовок сообщения:

Oh, I'm talking about NH. I still find swordsmen to be the best choice, in the current patch they're not purely offensive, they have 8/8 attack/counterattack and very high melee and ranged defense. As I said pikemen are good too, but I still use swordsmen because they fill a similar role and are just more resilient and easier to use.
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   bludwig

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Мар 31, 2017 3:08     Заголовок сообщения:

I don't think that swordsmen are really in need of nerfing. I use pikemen myself because that high counter plus first strike makes them kill low-level aggressors without even getting hurt, if you know how to finesse them. And in any case, I think that it makes both good gameplay sense and good lore sense for the best melee units in the early game to be good-aligned. There are many, many penalties inherent with a "good" playstyle... if a slightly strong ,n.innerHTML=`Дедлайн через ${d} ${1==d?"день":d>1&&d<5?"дня":"дней"} ${t(~~(s%864e5/36e5))}:${t(~~( melee unit is one thing that "good" gets, it still doesn't come close to unbalancing the game. Cheap evil shamans can tear swordsmen apart without really trying.

I went for an evil playthrough recently and was kind of shocked at how much easier playing evil seemed to be. Awesome casters at every level plus thugs at 2? And alliances with dark elves and gnolls?

I think you're right that the swordsman is a good early unit, but with a lack of pretty much any decent casters at all until very late and limited ranged options, the "good" faction as a whole is already properly nerfed, I feel. Pro game designers only nerf something further if it's so powerful that nobody would sanely pick anything else, preventing other content from being relevant, and we're just not there. If you're personally annoyed by that, you can just tweak the file to adjust their stats to exactly where you'd like them... it's an easy file to edit. But don't force that change on everybody. Good needs all the help it can get.

I know how you feel... it really bugged me that the new NH magic units like the Magister and Archmagister were evil, even though there was absolutely nothing in either their appearance or description that suggested anything of the sort, and evil players are already drowning in strong casters where good and neutral players have none. Why introduce new wizards, especially ones that look and sound wise and moderate, and then give them to the one alignment that absolutely doesn't need them? But when I was shot down in my pleas to make them neutral so everyone could use them (for no reason that anyone has yet really made clear to me) I learned how to modify the value for myself, and now I'm perfectly happy with my neutral Magisters, evil Black Unicorns (I still haven't met even one person who thinks they should be Neutral... who the hell decided that? They're hell-corrupted ragebeasts who kill for pleasure! How can that not be evil?) and so on. Mod the units to your heart's content if something like that is bothering you... it worked for me.
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