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How is site loot generated? [Eador: New Horizons]

   FurloSK

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Dec 31, 2020 15:29     Заголовок сообщения: How is site loot generated? [Eador: New Horizons]

Hello everyone,

does anyone know the precise game mechanics for generating item loot after defeating site guardians?

Long story / context:
I am currently working on an in-depth reference guide page for Eador: New Horizons.

So far, I have been able do decipher these points (please correct/fill in if anything is wrong):
  • sites are defined in site.var: this contains list of possible guard types that can defend the site itself
  • guard types are defined in guard_type.var: each guard type has list of several possible guards, from which one guard is selected (Militia guard type → Militia 0, Militia 1, Militia 2, Militia 3 guards)
  • guards are defined in guard.var and each guard has its own list of items that it can drop
  • item drops are therefore calculated from this list – however, this cannot be all, as these items only include a very limited subset of all items (only item ids 1-131 are used, whereas current item list ends with item id 656)
  • additionally, in unit.var, each unit has its own item loot table defined for each level (1-20). Is this used at all? When, and how – as there can be up to 16 units on each side?


Specific Questions:
  • What does site's Treasure field in site.var mean?
  • How is the particular guard determined from guard type? Randomly? Does it depend on site at all?
  • When is item loot table defined in unit.var used? Only when fighting against enemy heroes' army? Or even when fighting against guards?
  • There are two stages for item loot – first one, when the list of fighting units is displayed after fight, and then a second one that comes after it. Which items appear where? And what's done when items dropped do not fit into item loot slots?


Thanks for any help, guys!
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   Kzinch

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Dec 31, 2020 20:49     Заголовок сообщения: Re: How is site loot generated? [Eador: New Horizons]

So, what I could gather:

Цитата:
There are two stages for item loot – first one, when the list of fighting units is displayed after fight, and then a second one that comes after it. Which items appear where? And what's done when items dropped do not fit into item loot slots?

Items in combat result screen (battle trophies) are given after winning a battle for killed units (I don't know if only for killed enemy units, but probably so).
Items in site capture screen (site treasure) are given after winning a battle in site (no treasure after capturing province, fighting enemy guards and heroes, putting down a rebellion, etc).

Цитата:
When is item loot table defined in unit.var used? Only when fighting against enemy heroes' army? Or even when fighting against guards?
Additionally, in unit.var, each unit has its own item loot table defined for each level (1-20). Is this used at all? When, and how – as there can be up to 16 units on each side?

Levels there are levels of unit, they can be up to 30. I believe every item for current level and levels below actual level of killed unit is added to list of possible battle trophies with specified possibilities.

Цитата:
each guard has its own list of items that it can drop, item drops are therefore calculated from this list – however, this cannot be all, as these items only include a very limited subset of all items (only item ids 1-131 are used, whereas current item list ends with item id 656)

I don't know for sure but I think it's additional list of items for battle trophies in case if loot table is empty after processing all units in a guard.
Also fields "MaxLoot" and "LootPoss" there define maximum amount of battle trophies items and possibility of getting them.

Цитата:
What does site's Treasure field in site.var mean?

I found a quote from Adrageron (author of the game). Value of field "treasure" is added to value of field "power" in guard.var and resulting number defines how valuable is site treasure (the higher the better). If 0 or less then there is no treasure.

Цитата:
How is the particular guard determined from guard type? Randomly? Does it depend on site at all?
From my experience it's determined by level of province (how far a province is from starting position of any human/AI player). Capital province and its adjacent provinces (ring 1) are tier 1 provinces, ring 2 is tier 2, ring 3 is tier 3, ring 4 and higher are tier 4 provinces. Sometimes some site guards have higher tier for some reason (just for fun, I think). Also strategic resource without guard in province increases a tier of that province.

Also some sites have additional parameters — fields "ability" in site.var. They are described here (in Russian).
If site has "Ability: 17" then after capturing site a dialog from encounter.var with a number from field "Param1" (below "Ability: 17") appears. Some of those dialogs are giving items that are placed directly into a castle treasury. Such dialogs are made for high tier sites with fixed guards to give fixed types of items (for example, killing Tarrask in its own site gives you high tier warrior items).
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   Kzinch

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 01, 2021 7:46     Заголовок сообщения: Re: How is site loot generated? [Eador: New Horizons]

Kzinch писал(а):
Цитата:
each guard has its own list of items that it can drop, item drops are therefore calculated from this list – however, this cannot be all, as these items only include a very limited subset of all items (only item ids 1-131 are used, whereas current item list ends with item id 656)

I don't know for sure but I think it's additional list of items for battle trophies in case if loot table is empty after processing all units in a guard.
I've actually found another quote from Adrageron about that: "it's not used by the game, just remnants of old loot system".
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   Jagulars

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 21, 2021 12:21     Заголовок сообщения:

Цитата:
What does site's Treasure field in site.var mean?

This is added to the level of the site, which determines the quality of the rewards. Level of a site is normally between 0 and 19 depending on the "Power" value of the guard chosen, but is affected by "Treasure" value . A value of 0 means the reward value will be the same as the guard Power. To disable the site rewards altogether, the value should be -20 as resource sites have.

Цитата:
And what's done when items dropped do not fit into item loot slots?

If you set the Max Loot value as 5 or higher, I don't know what would happen when you actually gain more than 4 items. Probably the additional item would just be shown outside their designated slots. However, in Masters of the Broken World there is a bug that prevents ever gaining more than 1 item (talking about the first stage of loot) even if MaxLoot value is more than 1. This is possibly the case in Genesis as well since the Genesis code logic has been faithfully recreated in MotBW.

Цитата:
Capital province and its adjacent provinces (ring 1) are tier 1 provinces, ring 2 is tier 2, ring 3 is tier 3, ring 4 and higher are tier 4 provinces. Sometimes some site guards have higher tier for some reason (just for fun, I think).
The further you get from the capital province, the more random fluctuation there is in the strength of the guards. This means that ring 3 provinces can sometimes have guards that are more fitting to a ring 2 province or a ring 4 province. Also, technically there is no upper limit to the "tiers" of a province. If the closest capital is 8 provinces away, the province is technically a tier 8 province. However, there are no guards available with such great strength to fit a tier 8 province, so in practice the highest "tier" of a province is 6. Why not 4? Because there are some guards such as the "Dragons" whose strongest version cannot appear in tier 4 provinces. They need to be at least 6 provinces away from a capital.

Цитата:
Also strategic resource without guard in province increases a tier of that province.
I can't confirm this. Possibly a misconception risen from the random fluctuation of the guards strength in more distant provinces.
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   Kzinch

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 21, 2021 22:13     Заголовок сообщения:

Jagulars писал(а):
I can't confirm this. Possibly a misconception risen from the random fluctuation of the guards strength in more distant provinces.
Not a misconception. Have you never seen tier 3 guard in ring 2 province with open resource? It's pretty common situation. There is an example on my screenshots (I'm attacking ring 2 province with free horses and its guard is tier 3 — this guard doesn't have swordsman in tier 2). And it's not like some rare case, I don't remember seeing tier 2 guard in ring 2 province with open resource.



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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Вт Мар 02, 2021 1:35     Заголовок сообщения:

Hello FurloSK,

Here is a nice reference put together by Gremlion:
https://www.gog.com/forum/eador_series/moddingindexes

Have you seen the HTML tables I used to provide:
http://eador.online.fr/en/site.var.html

I could update the HTML tables if you're interested.

See also wortkarg's Eadoropedia:
https://wortkarg.bitbucket.io/eadoropedia/en/sites.html

EDIT: I see you're already aware of Eadoropedia Smile
https://eador.com/B2/viewtopic.php?t=4586

Regards.
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