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New Horizons(ver 14.0920) Translation Project

   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 20:12     Заголовок сообщения:

Drakon писал(а):
You do know how to grab files, right?

Kettarienne писал(а):
Interface.dat A133Menu


Hmmm, I thought I could figure it out, but alas... I'm not a game developer, or modder for that matter. I know the dat files must be some sort of archives or repositories, but 7zip can't open them, so I guess i must need some other program to "grab" these files, modify them and put them back. I'm sorry, I know this a forum for modders, but this is something I know nothing about. I catch on quick, so if you give me a brief pointer or a tool to do what's needed, I'd be much obliged. Smile
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   Kettarienne

 
 
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Satshanti писал(а):
I catch on quick, so if you give me a brief pointer or a tool to do what's needed, I'd be much obliged. :-)
https://www.allegro.cc/depot/Grabber/ is the tool. I was under the impression that Drakon had given this to you already.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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Thanks! I browsed a bit and also discovered an animated series of 16 Name bitmaps of "Eador" in the Animation.dat. The font used in all of these seems almost hand-drawn. Anybody got an idea if it's a known font and publicly available? If not, I'll use one that is as similar to it as I can find.
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 0:25     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti,

Just want to make sure you are aware that the game files have a well-defined syntax/structure, and that the translation process must preserve the structure.
Be also wary that Google destroys special characters such as $ ~ &
Also there are format strings %s and %d that must remain in the same order (this was the cause of a crash in the GOG version).
And Google breaks the format string specifiers too.
Also you can't use UTF-8 characters in the game files, obviously.

I feel a little bit useless at this point. Might as well publish all my stuff.

To get the map for the "Name" fields in var, I used simple UNIX tools:

$ LANG=C grep -rh "^Name: [^;]*;" drakon_en/var >Name_fields.en
$ LANG=C grep -rh "^Name: [^;]*;" drakon_ru/var | iconv -f CP1251 >Name_fields.ru

Here are the files:
http://eador.online.fr/Name_fields.en.txt
http://eador.online.fr/Name_fields.ru.txt

Regards.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 0:48     Заголовок сообщения:

Thank you, Boon947! Some things you shared I am aware of, but some things I wasn't and need to look into further. And to all: this is still experimental. I am convinced this will work and in the end there will be a system in place that also others can make use of, even if I would quit my involvement at some point. Once a TM exists, every new release could build on that, so in theory all the work I am currently doing needs to be done only once. Still, I cannot yet give any guaranties, but I have good hope this will work as I envision it. I will know more in a couple of more days. Now manually skimming through the dialogs for adjustment of the alignments. I'm amazed how much of it exists, and how much work must already have gone into this by creators and translators. I feel honoured to work on this...
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 1:24     Заголовок сообщения:

Question to other modders:

If I try to extract all the files inside Ability.dat using this command:
$ dat -x ../dat/Ability.dat '*'

I get these errors/warnings
c:\Grab\Skills\Skill026.bmp already exists, overwrite? (y/n/a/q)
c:\Grab\Skills\Robber.bmp already exists, overwrite? (y/n/a/q)
c:\Grab\Spells\New\S_ujazvimost.bmp already exists, overwrite? (y/n/a/q)
c:\Grab\Skills\Learn Spell.bmp already exists, overwrite? (y/n/a/q)
c:\Grab\Skills\Learn Spell.bmp already exists, overwrite? (y/n/a/q)
etc a few more times.

Is this normal? Why does it tell me these files are duplicated?

Regards.
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 1:35     Заголовок сообщения:

It seems I get the warning for these abilities:
31, 88, 105, 120, 121, 126, 440.

Maybe it just means some entries share a common bitmap?

$ grep Skill026.bmp res
Exporting 000Empty -> c:\Grab\Skills\Skill026.bmp
c:\Grab\Skills\Skill026.bmp already exists, overwrite? (y/n/a/q) Exporting 031Dispell -> c:\Grab\Skills\Skill026.bmp

000Empty and 031Dispell both use c:\Grab\Skills\Skill026.bmp ?
(Is it on purpose to use that bitmap for Empty?)

$ grep Robber.bmp res
Exporting 058Robber -> c:\Grab\Skills\Robber.bmp
c:\Grab\Skills\Robber.bmp already exists, overwrite? (y/n/a/q) Exporting 088Pillage -> c:\Grab\Skills\Robber.bmp

I suppose one can understand that 058Robber and 088Pillage would share the same bitmap.

Regards.
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   Максим Некромант

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 1:43     Заголовок сообщения:

Some bitmaps have similar inner name, but they are linked to unsimilar ability, and when you try to extract them, you have an error. It's normal, and you may pass through this message. But don't remember then some numbers of abilities need to have bitmaps, that you already have and just copy them, maybe with different name, to destroy collisions.
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 2:09     Заголовок сообщения:

I have extracted all the bitmaps, in case someone wants to examine them easily.
http://eador.online.fr/xdat.7z
(I can also provide the sound files, if interested.)
Regards.
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 2:13     Заголовок сообщения:

Forgot to mention, I used this bash script to mass extract:
Код:
mkdir -p xdat
for F in $(find dat -name *.dat); do
  DIR=x${F%.dat}
  mkdir -p $DIR
  dat -x -o $DIR/ $F '*'
  cd $DIR
  for G in *; do mv "$G" "${G##*\\}"; done
  cd -
done
Regards.
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 2:56     Заголовок сообщения:

And here are the RU<->EN mappings for the texts in campaign_dialog.var and dialog.var (from the last version translated by Drakon, 13.04Z)
I can remove the prefixes, and the trailing hashes, if you wish.
I can also filter out duplicate entries.
Also note that I've replaced LF (newline) with '@' to get each Text entry on a single line.

http://eador.online.fr/campaign_dialog.en.txt
http://eador.online.fr/campaign_dialog.ru.txt
http://eador.online.fr/dialog.en.txt
http://eador.online.fr/dialog.ru.txt

Regards.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Окт 30, 2014 12:12     Заголовок сообщения:

Boon947 писал(а):
And here are the RU<->EN mappings for the texts in campaign_dialog.var and dialog.var (from the last version translated by Drakon, 13.04Z)
I can remove the prefixes, and the trailing hashes, if you wish.
I can also filter out duplicate entries.
Also note that I've replaced LF (newline) with '@' to get each Text entry on a single line.

Thank you for that. I do really appreciate the efforts you have put into this already. I had already run those files through the alignment software however, which does all of the above automatically. Also, segmentation needs to be consistent, so when I run the 14.0920 versions of these files through the translation software, I will get 100% matches on every sentence that exists in the TM, including prefixes and trailing hashes.

The only remaining thing that takes time and needs manual review is the cases in which source and target translations have a different amount of sentences. For instance when "Look! Go there!" is translated as "Look and go there!". And this issue will also be there in perfectly mapped text files. And even in those cases the alignment software sometimes gets it right, but sometimes not, so it needs checking.

The only thing at this point that would really save time later is if these kind of text mapped translations exist for parts that were added to 14.0920 after 13.0421, stuff that has not already been translated by Drakon and this team. If nothing exists, then Google will have to do the honours, and editing afterwards by myself and fine-tuning certain parts of the translation by the community.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 1:19     Заголовок сообщения:

I've been busy today and managed to get a lot done. I have now finished aligning all relevant 13.0421 files in the Text and var folders and managed to extract 25284 unique Translation Units into a TM. TU's contain both languages and are sometimes as small as one word (i.e. the prefixes) and sometimes contain a very long sentence (i.e. the dialogs).

I also created a so-called Termbase with over 3567 unique terms in it. This is a database of terms, rather than sentences, so mostly units of one to about three words. I loaded all of the names into that, the ones in the long list Boon947 kindly provided, and the ones from versions later than 13.0421 from Drakon's list of names. A termbase is used slightly differently from a TM. A TM checks and, when possible, automatically translates whole sentences. A termbase just flags and displays all separate terms with their translations that occur in the current sentence. This means that if a new sentence, which is not translated automatically, but needs to be translated manually or by Google, has words in it that have already been translated and occur in the termbase, I will see that at a glance and can quickly improve the Google translation that way, using proper terminology. There are even more nifty functions, like auto-suggestion while editing, which I won't go into now, but is another cool feature.

So after all of that was set up and prepared, I loaded the Russian Text- and var-files of version 14.0920 into Trados, at least the ones that have English language equivalents.

On that topic, there seem to be a number of files in the var folder that were not translated into English in version 13.0421, and still have cyrillic Russian in them. They are:

encounter, event, group_coord, guard, landmark, mapobject and yuplay

Do I indeed leave these as is, also in the English version? This seems a bit strange...

There are others which don't have any language components in them at all, just characters and numbers. They are:

camp_event, CampDiff, castle, heroPrice, mercenary, stat, stat_progress and terr_layer

I guess the same applies, just copy them over, no need to translate?

All files of 13.0421 take up 4.1 MB while 14.0920 is 4.91 MB, so quite a bit more content. This is reflected in the stats I got in the Trados analysis:

Total no. of segments: 240043
Total no. of words: 528784

75% of those words are 100% matches or repetitions, which means they'll get automatically translated!
13% are matching more than 70%, which means that the relevant TU will come up, but only 30% of the sentence or less needs to be edited.
12% are new sentences, lines or terms that still need to be translated, but a part of those segments may also just contain numbers and can just be copied over.

Only the "real" new sentences need to be properly translated, but Google will do that automatically in those cases, so with the help of the termbase and auto-suggestion dictionaries, this can go relatively fast and for the most part it should be possible to quickly improve those Google results and create translations of high enough quality. I estimate that only in very few cases will I need some input from Russian speakers. I'll leave those bits open for now and place them on a separate semi-public Google sheet. I don't wish to publish the link in a post, but if you know Russian and English and have the time and desire to support this process, please send me a PM and I'll mail it to you.

That's it for today, now the actual translation will start. I'll keep you posted...
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 15:26     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
That's it for today, now the actual translation will start. I'll keep you posted...

Wait! Within a few hours, I will post the translations that were offered in the course of this thread (there are only a dozen; the translation for the Beholder description being the longest).
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 15:31     Заголовок сообщения:

Boon947 писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):
That's it for today, now the actual translation will start. I'll keep you posted...

Wait! Within a few hours, I will post the translations that were offered in the course of this thread (there are only a dozen; the translation for the Beholder description being the longest).

Okay! I had some other work this morning, so I hadn't started yet. Thanks for your continued participation. I'll wait... Smile
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 15:44     Заголовок сообщения:

There are ways to reduce the amount of translation required:
A few tips, as far as I understand (others will correct me if I am wrong)

- You can delete anything related to yuplay
- You can ignore credits.var : it contains the names of the great people who made this game (I copied the 1.05 English version)
- You can ignore the Russian text on lines that START with / (these are comments, not displayed)
- In several Text files (spell.txt, medal.txt, maybe others) there are some jokes/witty remarks included at the end of each description that are non-essential for gameplay. I wrote a script to remove them automatically. Do you want me to post the "cleaned-up" versions of these files? I don't think Drakon&co translated these, so you must have had many "alignment" issues with these files... right?

Regards.
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 16:02     Заголовок сообщения:

Also did you notice that in a lot of lines (~100) of the 2 dialog files there is only a tiny one-character
e becomes ë (I didn't use the proper Russian characters, don't copy/paste)
Can you configure your tool to ignore automatically these changes?
Regards.
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 16:07     Заголовок сообщения:

Boon947 писал(а):

- In several Text files (spell.txt, medal.txt, maybe others) there are some jokes/witty remarks included at the end of each description that are non-essential for gameplay. I wrote a script to remove them automatically. Do you want me to post the "cleaned-up" versions of these files? I don't think Drakon&co translated these, so you must have had many "alignment" issues with these files... right?

Yes, I thought it must be something like that, and I indeed had some alignment issues, although not that many. The alignment software uses a Russian-English dictionary, so if there clearly are extra sentences that are not translated, it just leaves that segment open, and is subsequently not imported into the TM.

This does mean however that during translation of the new version of those files, these remarks will be seen as "new sentences" and automatically translated by Google. If you're sure your clean-up process is error-free and only removes the non-essential witty remarks, it might be worth putting the applicable 14.0920 files through that process and use those for translation, rather than the originals. That for sure will save time.

On the other hand, now that I think it through, this issue will then come up again and again with each new release, which means these files will need to be pre-cleaned every time, something that we want to avoid. It might therefore be better to just let them come up during translation this time and translate them as a blank space. That way next time these parts will be skipped and translated automatically as blank spaces again. I hope I'm explaining things well enough. Smile
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 16:08     Заголовок сообщения:

Boon947 писал(а):
Also did you notice that in a lot of lines (~100) of the 2 dialog files there is only a tiny one-character
e becomes ë (I didn't use the proper Russian characters, don't copy/paste)
Can you configure your tool to ignore automatically these changes?

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you mean. Could you explain in more detail. Thanks!
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 31, 2014 16:25     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
Boon947 писал(а):
Also did you notice that in a lot of lines (~100) of the 2 dialog files there is only a tiny one-character
e becomes ë (I didn't use the proper Russian characters, don't copy/paste)
Can you configure your tool to ignore automatically these changes?

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you mean. Could you explain in more detail. Thanks!

I'm talking about corrections between two Russian versions.
See my first post, and the subsequent answers:
http://eador.com/B2/viewtopic.php?p=218577#218577

To give an example:
Answer2: Ничего, до свадьбы заживет.;#####
was corrected to
Answer2: Ничего, до свадьбы заживёт.;#####

-> Changing е to ё
This specific one-character fix occurs about 100 times.
Do you have a way to tell your tool that lines that differ only in these characters should be considered identical?

Also, there are sometimes very minor punctuation changes (like changing "," to "-" or vice-versa)
And also, I was not sure how to handle that, but there are case changes (lower case to upper case).
Can your tool also ignore these minor things?

Regards.
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